SEMGIRL

Hi, I was just your typical 19 year old Seminary girl in South Jersey (if you don't know where I mean, you are probably on the wrong blog). We all have nisoynos, challenges, and experiences, both positive and negative. Here is where I have decided to share some of them.

Name:
Location: Lakewood, New Jersey, United States

Monday, June 20, 2005

Modesty or Subjugation

I usually help out in the kitchen with Shabbos, Yom Tov, and weekday meal preparation, so its my job to peel and cut vegetables as well as check for worms and bugs in them.
So, I was rather annoyed to see posters up all over for a shiur and video presentation of checking for worms, being given this Wed. night by a world renowned expert. Naturally,
it is for men only, in Yiddish.

This makes no sense to me, as very few men are involved in day-to-day meal preparation. Are the women expected to learn this by osmosis, or does it mean we are free of the responsibility to check for bugs. Let the men do the work; they went to the shiur.

However, this is par for the course in Torah Town, USA. The Torah in TorahTown is only for the men, while the women in TorahTown, USA keep the town running but don’t actually run anything in the town.

It starts off with 5 year old boys getting prizes, rewards, and ice-cream parties for learning, usually at no cost to the parents, while little girls get to help clean the house, and work in the kitchen or go to Sunday Funday groups for arts&crafts or baking, which costs a pretty penny.

Older girls in high school, seminary, or married only get ‘inspirational’ lectures for which they have to pay. They also get the colorful posters and fancy fruit platters. The men are given constant hizuk in Torah, Yiras-Shomayim, Middos, and Avodas Hashem, and are told by their Rebbeim, parents, chavrusas, and mentors from the earliest age, that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and are keeping the world in existence. While us girls are constantly being told ad-nauseuem and ad-infinitum not to wear very colorful sneakers, skirts that are too short, too long, too bright, too flashy, or Heaven forbid stockings that are too sheer.

Tznius is a beautiful thing, and our Gedolim are trying very hard in a challenging, difficult generation. But somehow when the message of ‘Bnos Yisroel haim Melochim’ distillates down to the rank and file, it becomes Jim Crow is alive and well and living in our communities.

56 Comments:

Blogger Moiy-rah said...

if you dont like it, get out of it. There are many differnt drachim to serve hashem. choose one that makes sense to you.

6/20/2005 4:20 PM  
Blogger thekvetcher said...

YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID IF YOU CANT STAND THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN, TELL THE BOSS TO BUY BODEK

6/20/2005 5:29 PM  
Blogger EN said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/20/2005 9:32 PM  
Blogger tuesdaywishes said...

About the bugs, I think the idea is that the guys go to the shiur and go home and instruct their families about bug infestations. Of course, a lot may get lost in transmission. Certainly at my house this is issue is taken seriously enough that the only one allowed to do the checking on vegetables I regard as suspicious is the resident rabbi.

About women and Torah, we are Modern Orthodox, so my daughters' learning is as important to me as my sons'. There is a whole world outside Torahtown. Want to come visit?

6/20/2005 9:43 PM  
Blogger thekvetcher said...

shes coming to my neverland ranch first

6/20/2005 9:44 PM  
Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

Hi..Love your blog..
BTW I'm also in TorahTown and my wife is always running to shiurim and stuff so there are plenty of shiurim for women...around town.
As for the bugs, I just think it's circumstance..the men have the time and resources to delve into all the minute Halachic issues involved..

6/21/2005 12:45 PM  
Blogger thekvetcher said...

should yiddishe maidelach wear thongs? its a valid ? especially if a young girl is trying to attract boys. i would seriously like an answer. does it make a state ment about the girl?

6/21/2005 8:29 PM  
Blogger chayala said...

Semgirl,

Yes, in TorahTown, the boys are rewarded for their efforts in learning. They might as well be... they have school six days a week instead of five, like the girls. Have you ever tried to rouse your primary aged son from a deep slumber on a Sunday morning, when he knows he's the only one (so far) going on a bus to school, whereas his sister gets to enjoy a workshop learning to paint in watercolor? It's no picnic.

And it's true that the boys get prizes, but who said anything about the girls not getting rewarded? My second grader gets plenty of positive reinforcements in school, not to mention all the stuff she gets at home!

As far as Sunday funday goes, I've found them to be like daycamps - the bigger operations are more costly, where as the "backyard" ones are less. Then again, you don't HAVE to send there... why can't she just ride her bike around the block with her friends? Anyway, I don't really know any little girls who would "love" to learn instead of cleaning the house and helping in the kitchen, if there are in fact any mothers mental enough to force their daughters to do that every single week. If they did, they'd be burnt out by first grade.

To reiterate what catonyc said above, there are plenty of shiurim available to women in the evening. but I think that while it's nice to get out for an inspirational speech from time to time, it's not our tafkid to "shteig" - I think the entire bais yaakov school system in general has it backwards, in that they've turned our generation into these test-taking, coffee-drinking bundles of nerves who can quote you any ramban and know mesilas yeshorim by heart, but can't even thread a needle or boil water. I was in seminary when a teacher of ours quoted to us a gemora, that a woman once walked into a tanna's shiur to ask him a shaila on something. his response was to "go home and knit." Not very nice at first glance, but the teacher explained that gemora was written for a man's brain. things like, if there is a mouse, and he goes into a house with a piece of chometz, and it's before pesach, and then the mouse comes out of the house without the chometz, is the house chometzdig - or something like that... I mean, I don't know about you - but I cannot follow that line of logic. Knitting, the tanna meant, is something that is more understandable for women's minds. What is knitting? You are taking chaos and making some kind of order out of it. Hmm, doesn't sound so offensive now, does it?

I can understand why boys are told they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, but why weren't the girls? That is a problem with the teachers, not the system. (I do, however, feel that the boys should be offered some kind of vocational course so that they can learn to support their family after they get out of kollel - but that is another blog altogether.)

The tznius issue is a totally separate topic. Maybe I'm dating myself a little here, but in my day, things were not as bad as they are today, what with the advent of cell phones, internet, etc. I'm pretty open-minded, and I don't consider myself to be a greased-out frummack, but when I see the girls today in town on sundays, with their skirts that sweep the floor, i am so not turned on. It is possible to be trendy and dress tzniusdig.

Sorry my comment ended up being just about as long as your post, but there are things about which I feel very strongly.

6/21/2005 9:42 PM  
Blogger A Monsey Yid said...

Re. Tznius

Nothing is more becoming for a girl than to dress ladylike i.e. in vogue yet modest

6/22/2005 10:39 AM  
Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

Chayele,
Very true...I think however that most kollel guys that are not interested in learning are going out and getting jobs. I think that taboo has been broken somewhat.
As for the Tznius issue..I'm a big live and let live type of guy..unless there's a major breach. I think everyone has to focus on their families and not get sucked into a peer pressure pattern...

6/22/2005 12:28 PM  
Blogger FoncusedYid said...

Well,
The jewish religoun is something similar to Al - Queda, The woman are just used for Sex and delivering babies, and for those of you who dont like to hear it , well thats the truth.

Is was always like that and always be.

However, these low lifes in Lakewood took it to a whole new level, These ass holes dont even bring home the bacon , They sit on their asses have sex every night cuz he is a TALMUD CHUCHEM lets the wife run the house, and sends her to work as well. WOW!!! what a life, what an idea. See, we chasidim just turn on the wash machine every so often and put in the seeds but at least we go to work every day, The lakewood boys though, found a way to beat the system completely all in the name of HASHEM!!!

what a world!!!

6/22/2005 5:33 PM  
Blogger shira22 said...

Chayala;
I am a married woman who would prefer learning from an artscroll gemara to cooking or sewing any day of the week.My husband is a far better cook than I am and I can barely sew a straight stitch. I'm just not interested.
Let's not fool ourselves,someone has to do the day to day menial domestic chores that a household requires. If the husband is always learning,who does that leave? Veibela! But let's not delude ourselves into thinking it's a woman's sacred avoda. A woman can lead an oisgehalten life without ever cooking, sewing or cleaning. Without learning, however she is no better than a brood mare.

6/22/2005 6:05 PM  
Blogger shira22 said...

well said, foncuseyid! you make an excellent point!

6/22/2005 6:11 PM  
Blogger Ben Sorer Moreh said...

Why lecture to the men about "glatt kosher vegetables?" "Ko tomar lebet Yaakov" (Ex. 19:3) A vignette from my family: Kallah & I are at my parents for Pesah. She's raised by secular parents. My parents are ultra. (We met in the middle.) Candle lighting. Mom lights, puts the lit match down on the metal tray. Wife lights and blows out the match (a "no-no"). Dad pulls me aside and points this out, then adds "you know, she expects you to guide her..."

6/22/2005 6:30 PM  
Blogger FoncusedYid said...

Thanks Shira,

to add to your wonderfull point, it has come to a point that if you dont cook great, or sew dresses for your daughters, you're not a "balabusta" or a "yiddishe mame". This is such bull shit. There is an old joke "How come when the mother watches her children every night she is a good mother, and when the husband does it, he "Baby sits tonight" ?

Thats the way we were brought up!! GO MAN lol

6/22/2005 6:55 PM  
Blogger thekvetcher said...

CONFUSED MY TYERA CHAVER: DO YOU THINK IT WAS THE BOZOS IN LAKEWOOD THAT POSTED ALL THE HILCHOS SEX ON SHLOIMYS BLOG? BY THE WAY ARENT THERE GUY THERE IN KOLLEL WITH THEIR GRANDCHILDREN ?

6/22/2005 8:05 PM  
Blogger Jen said...

Oy vey. What to do? What a dilemma.

RYC: Thank you! Good suggestion.

Re FoncusedYid's comment, "How come when the mother watches her children every night she is a good mother, and when the husband does it, he "Baby sits tonight" ?" This is true among the goyim as well. I know a man, a retired doctor, who, when his wife is at work (she's an RN), refers to staying home with his twin baby girls as "babysitting." I got onto him about that. I said, "You're their father. You're not babysitting. You're being a dad." It went right over his head!

Welcome to blogging, semgirl!

6/22/2005 8:19 PM  
Blogger Jen said...

Oh, I was wondering, why are we dogging the Lakewood guys? What are they? Just curious!

6/22/2005 8:28 PM  
Blogger thekvetcher said...

JEN, IF YOU GO TO PARIS ON YOUR UP COMING HONEYMOON YOU WILL SEE PARIS SITES RIGHT? IF YOU GO TO LAKEWOOD YOU WILL SEE THE SAME THING. LAKEWOOD IS A YESHIVA THAT HAS THE IDEOLOGY THAT SITTING AND LEARNING ALL DAY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BEING A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF SOCIETY IT HAS BECOME AN EXCUSE FOR LAZINESS AND EVERYTHING IS COMING TO US BECAUSE WE ARE LEARNING. IT IS A WONDERFUL THING TO LEARN FOR A WHILE BUT TO SPEND YOUR LIFE AS A FULL TIME KOLLEL GUY IS BEYOND MY COMPREHENSION. ONE CAN WORK AND LEARN IN A WONDERFUL BALANCED LIFE.
BTW IT IS THE ONE JOB WITH MORE VACATION DAYS IN THE WORLD. I HOPE THAT CLARIFIES IT FOR YOU.

6/22/2005 8:52 PM  
Blogger chayala said...

Shira22,

For the record, I am married to a working man, and I'm proud of it. I, like cantonyc, am a live-and-let-live person, who respects kollel, but doesn't really understand it and could certainly never live it. I have friends who are kollel wives, and how they do it is beyond me, especially with their increasingly large families. And I also work, but my real job is being a wife/mommy.

my point is, you don't HAVE to be a balabuste who churns out 5 fresh cakes a day, sews haute couture for her kids and maintains a perfectly manicured garden of antique English roses. That's nuts - but on the other hand, yes, that is what we are meant to take pride in: our family. That is not to say a woman cannot get a degree in social work, physical therapy, journalism, or what not - let her follow her dreams of a career... but her priorities need to be straight before she goes galloping to the nearest institution of higher learning.

Foncused,

"The jewish religoun is something similar to Al - Queda, The woman are just used for Sex and delivering babies, and for those of you who dont like to hear it , well thats the truth.

Is was always like that and always be."
I totally disagree with you. as many problem marriages as there are today, I am an old-fashioned girl and still believe in the notion of love and marriage. I simply cannot fathom the idea of women being viewed that way in their husbands' eyes.

6/22/2005 10:11 PM  
Blogger Jen said...

Ah! Thank you for the answer to my Lakewood question, Kvetch.

6/22/2005 10:20 PM  
Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

This in the news today...

LONDON (Reuters) - Married men earn more than bachelors so long as their wives stay at home doing the housework, according to a report Wednesday from Britain's Institute for Social and Economic Research (ISER).

ADVERTISEMENT


Academics Elena Bardasi and Mark Taylor found that a married man whose wife does not go out to work but is primarily responsible for the cooking and cleaning earns about 3 percent more than comparably employed single men.


But that wage premium disappears if wives go out to work themselves or don't do most of the housework..

David.aka CantoNYC

6/22/2005 10:28 PM  
Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

Jen..
If you go to Sorbonne in Paris you will find many scholars..professor who devote their lives to learning.
Yet some people are extrememly annoyed that Frum people would do the same thing...
I say..Live and let Live..

Anyhow..I don't think the intent of this forum was to trash and stereotype communities or religions and beliefs.

Shira
I'd also love to study from Gemara every day over going to work. But I have a job to do..whether I like it or nor..I have a resposiblity..

CantoNYC

6/22/2005 10:32 PM  
Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

Here's a quote...from the next topic

FoncusedYid said...



Hi there,

Well, i am a guy who got married 5 years ago, and untill then i had "Heimishe" girl friends from the community. I dont want to sound like my father, but if i would do it all over again i would not go that route, it gave me a lot of trouble later on in life (AS in now!). So, if you are ion the begining put a stop to any of these things (if youre doing it) right now, otherwise if youre in to it for a while, i might as well be quiet cuz aint no way youre stopping now!!

I am very happily married, but still have relations with another girl that i dated back then, i know it does not make sense but it works for me

Good luck

You obviously have isues. Please don't comment on a religion you know nothing about.
People tend to paint entire topics and stereotypes based on their own private experiences which in this case is unfortunate.
I can tell you that the women in Lakewood are happier than most women anywhere else.

Canto

6/22/2005 10:58 PM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

ben soreh umoyreh:

Why is blowing out the match a no-no? You haven't been mekabel shabbos yet. Unless its some chassidesheh thing...?

6/23/2005 6:17 AM  
Blogger Mirty said...

Sorry you're stuck in that situation. Stay strong - you'll be old enough soon to make your own choices. When that time comes, choose wisely.

6/23/2005 7:29 AM  
Blogger Conservative Apikoris said...

If you go to Sorbonne in Paris you will find many scholars..professor who devote their lives to learning.
Yet some people are extrememly annoyed that Frum people would do the same thing...
I say..Live and let Live..


But at secular universities, these scholars are paid a salary to devote their lives to learning. And most of them also have to teach classes and work hard groveling for research funding.

So they are actually working very hard.

Do the full-time learners at Lakewood get paid? Do they teach others?

6/23/2005 8:17 AM  
Blogger Ben Sorer Moreh said...

>>Jameel Rashid said...
>>ben soreh umoyreh:


>Why is blowing out the match a no->no? You haven't been mekabel shabbos yet.

Sorry Jameel, left out that they had made the brachot. Perhaps that explains it.

>Unless its some chassidesheh >thing...?

Maybe. I'm not up on the fine points of candle-lighting halachah.

6/23/2005 8:35 AM  
Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

Ben Sorer:

Oh OK. You had me wondering if Mrs. Rasheed was being an apikorsis for blowing out the match. In today's world, I could imagine an entire chasideshe concept of "don't blow out the match." For thousands of years, Jewish women never blew out matches, because it adds to choas in the world and prevents the nitoztos from coming together...leshem yichud lidhe brich-hu...the match has to burn itself out, taking the sitra achra and the yetzer hara with it, as the shabbis malachim start to come out.

Never too late to start a new chumra.

6/23/2005 9:40 AM  
Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

Disclaimer: When I refer to Kollel guys I'm referring to the 80% of them that are serious learners and are truly Moser Nefesh to be able to learn.
But at secular universities, these scholars are paid a salary to devote their lives to learning.

Sounds nice. I'm sure the Kollel guys would to get a salary like that..
Those
And most of them also have to teach classes and work hard groveling for research funding.

So they are actually working very hard.


Those in the academic Torah circle gain immensely from these hard working dilligent kollel guys who add brain power to the Mesoras Hatorah. New Seforim. New Reasearch. A new genmeration of scholars and teachers, rebbeim and Roshei Yeshivah.
Those that appreciate these things will donate miney to keep kollelim running. Those that don't..don't have to. But Live and Let Live...

6/23/2005 10:11 AM  
Blogger FoncusedYid said...

David my friend:


Let me set the record straight, and maybe you'lle learn something.

For starters: I know this religon very very well i was born and bred in BP and i was a chassidishe boy with payoes down to my pipic untill the age of 17. And like a typical Al queda member you will say anything and everything to protect the religoun even if it is not true, you might not know it, but youre so brain washed that you cant see out side the box.

As for the lakewood PULEASEEEEE you have no clue whats youre talking about. Most of them are depressed beyond beleive but by the time they notice it they are stuck with a lazy bum (Talmid chuchem) husband who does nothing and 6 1/2 kids and they are trapped. i have lots of friends and FAMILY in lakewood open your eyes and smell the ****

6/23/2005 11:13 AM  
Blogger David_on_the_Lake said...

For starters: I know this religon very very well i was born and bred in BP and i was a chassidishe boy with payoes down to my pipic untill the age of 17.

It's exactly this paragraph that makes me say that you know nothing about our religion.
You see you have to realize there are 2 dynamics that are at work in a community..There's religion and more importantly there's a culure. Every day life is more colored by the culure ..the Shtetl European culture, which may be vital for giving over the soul of the religion..but should never be mistaken for the religion itself.
As for Lakewood..Please stop right there..I live in Lakewood..I have brothers..and friends that are in Kollel..and thatk god...the depression is way under what you'll find in Flatbush..BP..UWS..LA or any other "enlightened" locale.

6/23/2005 11:27 AM  
Blogger suramalka_i said...

i saw a link to your blog over at "yiddishechatrooms", so i came to check it out, you are right on the button, keep it up girl

6/23/2005 7:09 PM  
Blogger FoncusedYid said...

i never was on yiddishchatrooms. is it in a blog form?? can you give me a direct link to it?? Thank you

6/23/2005 7:16 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Suramalka

Welcome aboard, glad you like it.

Fonc and others:

I tend to agree with David, my intention with this post was not to start a Lakewood bashing contest, but rather to point out the unfairness towards towards more
then half of the residents, and vent about it. Maybe even hear postive ideas on dealing with it.

6/24/2005 4:29 PM  
Blogger FoncusedYid said...

Sem:

On blogs you dont always get what you "want" to hear, you get to hear sometimes stuff that you might disagree with or not like to hear.

When i give you my blog, i give you my honest opinoin on how i feel about stuff and thats exactly what i did here.

Thanks

6/25/2005 11:19 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Fair enough, Fonc.. Thanks for your input..

6/26/2005 9:14 AM  
Blogger TheGirl said...

Nice too see another Himishe Blog written by a teenage girl.

I wish u much luck Sem, and dont let the weirdos get too u ;)!

6/27/2005 11:00 AM  
Blogger Avi said...

Nice article semgirl. You sound perfectly normal to me.

6/28/2005 10:39 PM  
Blogger Avi said...

Nice article Semgirl. You sound perfectly normal to me

6/28/2005 10:40 PM  
Blogger anonymous said...

channa maybe the problem is YOUR brain, not women's brains, eh?

your tafkid may be to thread a needle. speak for yourself this is the 20th century, it is not that hard to run a household. i think it's a waste of human life to spend one second more than necessary on housework. and dont kid yourself. the narrowminded chassidische education of women where they come out not knowing the first thing about their own religion is a major problem and part of the reason there is nothing in common between the men and women in the chassidic world.

6/29/2005 5:58 AM  
Blogger anonymous said...

fonocused, the lakewood wives are a lot happier than the chassidiche wives, so something is working.

6/29/2005 5:58 AM  
Blogger anonymous said...

"but when I see the girls today in town on sundays, with their skirts that sweep the floor, i am so not turned on. It is possible to be trendy and dress tzniusdig."

you think they're not tzniusdik because their skirts are too long?
What a brainwashed nitwit you are

6/29/2005 6:00 AM  
Blogger anonymous said...

"i have lots of friends and FAMILY in lakewood open your eyes and smell the ****"

you mean you have chassidiche family in lakewood, who decided to join the kollel system, but didn't grow up in a culture that supports learning and it's grafted on and doesn't have anything much to do with the way they think about religion or their lives...but for the litvische who are actually really serious about, the women are not depressed, they are very happy.

but the really crazy thing is for someone who is cheating on his wife, because he thinks all his wife cares about is that he bring home a salary and play a part, and has a girlfrieend for companionship and sex, to go around talking about other married women who are depressed. let's discover how depressed your wife will be when she finds out about your affair. how depressed will your "girlfriend" be when both of your marriages are wrecked. you sound like a real authority on what pleases women. feh.

6/29/2005 6:09 AM  
Blogger tastic said...

Semgirl,

Just be careful. Though the blog world is a good place to vent and let out steam, be careful because there are wackos out there, some posting comments on this blog. Stay balanced, and just always think things through and have faith in the Almighty.

www.hatzlacha.blogspot.com

6/29/2005 6:50 PM  
Blogger anonymous said...

"That is not to say a woman cannot get a degree in social work, physical therapy, journalism, or what not - let her follow her dreams of a career... but her priorities need to be straight before she goes galloping to the nearest institution of higher learning."

You are such an idiot. Some of us think that women aren't good mothers if they sew or bake, because GOOD MORNING YOU CAN BUY THAT STUFF TODAY. and that today it is important for mothers to actually KNOW SOMETHING so they can teach their kids, you know? Institutions of higher learning aren't there only so people can have careers, and women don't need to learn to have careers. Women need to learn something so they don't turn into nitwits like you misquoting gemaras and missing the point of them.

7/01/2005 2:34 AM  
Blogger anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7/01/2005 2:36 AM  
Blogger anonymous said...

and susceptible to every bit of propaganda that any beis yaakov teacher might feed them, I might add.

7/01/2005 2:39 AM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Last anonymous:

That is precisely the point I was trying to make. In the future could you make up a nickname, so it is easier to refer to you.

7/01/2005 8:55 AM  
Blogger Mississippi Fred MacDowell said...

There is so much wasted brainpower in Lakewood.In spite of what you are brainwashed into believing,sitting in front of a gemora all day is not the only way to be an oved hashem.Some of the bench kvetchers could be briiliant doctors,scientists,etc.Who serves Hashem better the guy who sits in front of a gemora all day or the doctor who acts as the agent of the rofeh cholim?

7/03/2005 2:03 AM  
Blogger Michelle said...

I don't understand it either. In my community anyway, nobody cares anyway. Their maids do everything anyway.
BTW, I read your intro, and I know exactly what you're going through. Here's what I say about being considered "bummy" when I am SO NOT, "If they don't like my flip-flops, then obviously the boys they have in mind are not for me." There ya go. Who can stand for their garbage?

Anyway, keep up the good work, and don't forget to visit MY blog- www.rikkikat.blogspot.com

(Sorry for the shameless self-promotion)

7/06/2005 5:20 PM  
Blogger StillSearching said...

What about the singles waiting to be married. Peple collect $$$$$$ for hachnasa kala but do nothing for singles

7/10/2005 9:24 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

S_Searching: I couldn't agree with you more. I really feel for you.

7/10/2005 11:29 PM  
Blogger bec said...

semgirl, i love your blog even though i just discovered it today.
you raise valid issues, and these are issues i've confronted time and again in my back and forth from odoxy to non-odoxy. it's hard because on one hand, there's a longing to do teshuvah, and do right by Hashem, and then on the other hand,once the initial amazement wears off, the shiurim are all for the men, and us women often do get stuck in the kitchen, or taking care of the kids, while our husbands are embraced and out late learning. so now, i find myself in the almost perfect community of people, except that it's not orthodox, and while all are jews, no two do the same thing. so i find myself in the odox communities whenever i can since i feel a closeness that i don't feel anywhere else.
i totally resent that some posters on this blog feel that if a person isn't completely happy than they should go somewhere else. the beauty of judaism is that we're taught to question--isn't that what we're doing when we learn chumash or talmud? constantly questioning for meaning. so something doesn't make sense, QUESTION it until it does. that's the only way we learn.

7/12/2005 3:54 PM  
Blogger Di Polnishe Maidele said...

Dont be so selfish! Think about those females who are getting the circumsion or do not have any access to the education. Relax!

7/19/2005 11:34 AM  
Blogger frumandfree said...

I am an educated (post Masters), happy, hard working, fulfilled Kollel wife with a wonderful, intelligent, caring, hard working husband. I have many educated, intelligent, happy Kollel wife friends. If one does not wish to be learn in Kollel- he can be a great Jew. It is wrong however, to put an entire community down because of a personal decision. Live and let live, there are many ways one can serve Hashem.


Regarding the Jewish women are baby machines comment; A healthy Jewish marriage is when both parties give to and respect each other so they can grow together and become a team. There are unhealthy relationships within our community, but they do not define what Jewish marriage is according to the Torah.

Remember, (or realize) that Judaism is the religion responsible for morality in this world. See: http://www.aish.com/seminars/worldperfect/index.htm

5/11/2006 9:14 PM  

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