Modesty or Subjugation
I usually help out in the kitchen with Shabbos, Yom Tov, and weekday meal preparation, so its my job to peel and cut vegetables as well as check for worms and bugs in them.
So, I was rather annoyed to see posters up all over for a shiur and video presentation of checking for worms, being given this Wed. night by a world renowned expert. Naturally,
it is for men only, in Yiddish.
This makes no sense to me, as very few men are involved in day-to-day meal preparation. Are the women expected to learn this by osmosis, or does it mean we are free of the responsibility to check for bugs. Let the men do the work; they went to the shiur.
However, this is par for the course in Torah Town, USA. The Torah in TorahTown is only for the men, while the women in TorahTown, USA keep the town running but don’t actually run anything in the town.
It starts off with 5 year old boys getting prizes, rewards, and ice-cream parties for learning, usually at no cost to the parents, while little girls get to help clean the house, and work in the kitchen or go to Sunday Funday groups for arts&crafts or baking, which costs a pretty penny.
Older girls in high school, seminary, or married only get ‘inspirational’ lectures for which they have to pay. They also get the colorful posters and fancy fruit platters. The men are given constant hizuk in Torah, Yiras-Shomayim, Middos, and Avodas Hashem, and are told by their Rebbeim, parents, chavrusas, and mentors from the earliest age, that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and are keeping the world in existence. While us girls are constantly being told ad-nauseuem and ad-infinitum not to wear very colorful sneakers, skirts that are too short, too long, too bright, too flashy, or Heaven forbid stockings that are too sheer.
Tznius is a beautiful thing, and our Gedolim are trying very hard in a challenging, difficult generation. But somehow when the message of ‘Bnos Yisroel haim Melochim’ distillates down to the rank and file, it becomes Jim Crow is alive and well and living in our communities.
So, I was rather annoyed to see posters up all over for a shiur and video presentation of checking for worms, being given this Wed. night by a world renowned expert. Naturally,
it is for men only, in Yiddish.
This makes no sense to me, as very few men are involved in day-to-day meal preparation. Are the women expected to learn this by osmosis, or does it mean we are free of the responsibility to check for bugs. Let the men do the work; they went to the shiur.
However, this is par for the course in Torah Town, USA. The Torah in TorahTown is only for the men, while the women in TorahTown, USA keep the town running but don’t actually run anything in the town.
It starts off with 5 year old boys getting prizes, rewards, and ice-cream parties for learning, usually at no cost to the parents, while little girls get to help clean the house, and work in the kitchen or go to Sunday Funday groups for arts&crafts or baking, which costs a pretty penny.
Older girls in high school, seminary, or married only get ‘inspirational’ lectures for which they have to pay. They also get the colorful posters and fancy fruit platters. The men are given constant hizuk in Torah, Yiras-Shomayim, Middos, and Avodas Hashem, and are told by their Rebbeim, parents, chavrusas, and mentors from the earliest age, that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and are keeping the world in existence. While us girls are constantly being told ad-nauseuem and ad-infinitum not to wear very colorful sneakers, skirts that are too short, too long, too bright, too flashy, or Heaven forbid stockings that are too sheer.
Tznius is a beautiful thing, and our Gedolim are trying very hard in a challenging, difficult generation. But somehow when the message of ‘Bnos Yisroel haim Melochim’ distillates down to the rank and file, it becomes Jim Crow is alive and well and living in our communities.
posted by SemGirl | Monday, June 20, 2005
29 Comments:
YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID IF YOU CANT STAND THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN, TELL THE BOSS TO BUY BODEK
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shes coming to my neverland ranch first
Hi..Love your blog..
BTW I'm also in TorahTown and my wife is always running to shiurim and stuff so there are plenty of shiurim for women...around town.
As for the bugs, I just think it's circumstance..the men have the time and resources to delve into all the minute Halachic issues involved..
should yiddishe maidelach wear thongs? its a valid ? especially if a young girl is trying to attract boys. i would seriously like an answer. does it make a state ment about the girl?
Chayele,
Very true...I think however that most kollel guys that are not interested in learning are going out and getting jobs. I think that taboo has been broken somewhat.
As for the Tznius issue..I'm a big live and let live type of guy..unless there's a major breach. I think everyone has to focus on their families and not get sucked into a peer pressure pattern...
Why lecture to the men about "glatt kosher vegetables?" "Ko tomar lebet Yaakov" (Ex. 19:3) A vignette from my family: Kallah & I are at my parents for Pesah. She's raised by secular parents. My parents are ultra. (We met in the middle.) Candle lighting. Mom lights, puts the lit match down on the metal tray. Wife lights and blows out the match (a "no-no"). Dad pulls me aside and points this out, then adds "you know, she expects you to guide her..."
CONFUSED MY TYERA CHAVER: DO YOU THINK IT WAS THE BOZOS IN LAKEWOOD THAT POSTED ALL THE HILCHOS SEX ON SHLOIMYS BLOG? BY THE WAY ARENT THERE GUY THERE IN KOLLEL WITH THEIR GRANDCHILDREN ?
JEN, IF YOU GO TO PARIS ON YOUR UP COMING HONEYMOON YOU WILL SEE PARIS SITES RIGHT? IF YOU GO TO LAKEWOOD YOU WILL SEE THE SAME THING. LAKEWOOD IS A YESHIVA THAT HAS THE IDEOLOGY THAT SITTING AND LEARNING ALL DAY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BEING A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF SOCIETY IT HAS BECOME AN EXCUSE FOR LAZINESS AND EVERYTHING IS COMING TO US BECAUSE WE ARE LEARNING. IT IS A WONDERFUL THING TO LEARN FOR A WHILE BUT TO SPEND YOUR LIFE AS A FULL TIME KOLLEL GUY IS BEYOND MY COMPREHENSION. ONE CAN WORK AND LEARN IN A WONDERFUL BALANCED LIFE.
BTW IT IS THE ONE JOB WITH MORE VACATION DAYS IN THE WORLD. I HOPE THAT CLARIFIES IT FOR YOU.
This in the news today...
LONDON (Reuters) - Married men earn more than bachelors so long as their wives stay at home doing the housework, according to a report Wednesday from Britain's Institute for Social and Economic Research (ISER).
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Academics Elena Bardasi and Mark Taylor found that a married man whose wife does not go out to work but is primarily responsible for the cooking and cleaning earns about 3 percent more than comparably employed single men.
But that wage premium disappears if wives go out to work themselves or don't do most of the housework..
David.aka CantoNYC
Jen..
If you go to Sorbonne in Paris you will find many scholars..professor who devote their lives to learning.
Yet some people are extrememly annoyed that Frum people would do the same thing...
I say..Live and let Live..
Anyhow..I don't think the intent of this forum was to trash and stereotype communities or religions and beliefs.
Shira
I'd also love to study from Gemara every day over going to work. But I have a job to do..whether I like it or nor..I have a resposiblity..
CantoNYC
Here's a quote...from the next topic
FoncusedYid said...
Hi there,
Well, i am a guy who got married 5 years ago, and untill then i had "Heimishe" girl friends from the community. I dont want to sound like my father, but if i would do it all over again i would not go that route, it gave me a lot of trouble later on in life (AS in now!). So, if you are ion the begining put a stop to any of these things (if youre doing it) right now, otherwise if youre in to it for a while, i might as well be quiet cuz aint no way youre stopping now!!
I am very happily married, but still have relations with another girl that i dated back then, i know it does not make sense but it works for me
Good luck
You obviously have isues. Please don't comment on a religion you know nothing about.
People tend to paint entire topics and stereotypes based on their own private experiences which in this case is unfortunate.
I can tell you that the women in Lakewood are happier than most women anywhere else.
Canto
ben soreh umoyreh:
Why is blowing out the match a no-no? You haven't been mekabel shabbos yet. Unless its some chassidesheh thing...?
If you go to Sorbonne in Paris you will find many scholars..professor who devote their lives to learning.
Yet some people are extrememly annoyed that Frum people would do the same thing...
I say..Live and let Live..
But at secular universities, these scholars are paid a salary to devote their lives to learning. And most of them also have to teach classes and work hard groveling for research funding.
So they are actually working very hard.
Do the full-time learners at Lakewood get paid? Do they teach others?
>>Jameel Rashid said...
>>ben soreh umoyreh:
>Why is blowing out the match a no->no? You haven't been mekabel shabbos yet.
Sorry Jameel, left out that they had made the brachot. Perhaps that explains it.
>Unless its some chassidesheh >thing...?
Maybe. I'm not up on the fine points of candle-lighting halachah.
Ben Sorer:
Oh OK. You had me wondering if Mrs. Rasheed was being an apikorsis for blowing out the match. In today's world, I could imagine an entire chasideshe concept of "don't blow out the match." For thousands of years, Jewish women never blew out matches, because it adds to choas in the world and prevents the nitoztos from coming together...leshem yichud lidhe brich-hu...the match has to burn itself out, taking the sitra achra and the yetzer hara with it, as the shabbis malachim start to come out.
Never too late to start a new chumra.
Disclaimer: When I refer to Kollel guys I'm referring to the 80% of them that are serious learners and are truly Moser Nefesh to be able to learn.
But at secular universities, these scholars are paid a salary to devote their lives to learning.
Sounds nice. I'm sure the Kollel guys would to get a salary like that..
Those
And most of them also have to teach classes and work hard groveling for research funding.
So they are actually working very hard.
Those in the academic Torah circle gain immensely from these hard working dilligent kollel guys who add brain power to the Mesoras Hatorah. New Seforim. New Reasearch. A new genmeration of scholars and teachers, rebbeim and Roshei Yeshivah.
Those that appreciate these things will donate miney to keep kollelim running. Those that don't..don't have to. But Live and Let Live...
For starters: I know this religon very very well i was born and bred in BP and i was a chassidishe boy with payoes down to my pipic untill the age of 17.
It's exactly this paragraph that makes me say that you know nothing about our religion.
You see you have to realize there are 2 dynamics that are at work in a community..There's religion and more importantly there's a culure. Every day life is more colored by the culure ..the Shtetl European culture, which may be vital for giving over the soul of the religion..but should never be mistaken for the religion itself.
As for Lakewood..Please stop right there..I live in Lakewood..I have brothers..and friends that are in Kollel..and thatk god...the depression is way under what you'll find in Flatbush..BP..UWS..LA or any other "enlightened" locale.
Suramalka
Welcome aboard, glad you like it.
Fonc and others:
I tend to agree with David, my intention with this post was not to start a Lakewood bashing contest, but rather to point out the unfairness towards towards more
then half of the residents, and vent about it. Maybe even hear postive ideas on dealing with it.
Fair enough, Fonc.. Thanks for your input..
Nice too see another Himishe Blog written by a teenage girl.
I wish u much luck Sem, and dont let the weirdos get too u ;)!
Nice article semgirl. You sound perfectly normal to me.
Nice article Semgirl. You sound perfectly normal to me
Last anonymous:
That is precisely the point I was trying to make. In the future could you make up a nickname, so it is easier to refer to you.
There is so much wasted brainpower in Lakewood.In spite of what you are brainwashed into believing,sitting in front of a gemora all day is not the only way to be an oved hashem.Some of the bench kvetchers could be briiliant doctors,scientists,etc.Who serves Hashem better the guy who sits in front of a gemora all day or the doctor who acts as the agent of the rofeh cholim?
I don't understand it either. In my community anyway, nobody cares anyway. Their maids do everything anyway.
BTW, I read your intro, and I know exactly what you're going through. Here's what I say about being considered "bummy" when I am SO NOT, "If they don't like my flip-flops, then obviously the boys they have in mind are not for me." There ya go. Who can stand for their garbage?
Anyway, keep up the good work, and don't forget to visit MY blog- www.rikkikat.blogspot.com
(Sorry for the shameless self-promotion)
What about the singles waiting to be married. Peple collect $$$$$$ for hachnasa kala but do nothing for singles
S_Searching: I couldn't agree with you more. I really feel for you.
semgirl, i love your blog even though i just discovered it today.
you raise valid issues, and these are issues i've confronted time and again in my back and forth from odoxy to non-odoxy. it's hard because on one hand, there's a longing to do teshuvah, and do right by Hashem, and then on the other hand,once the initial amazement wears off, the shiurim are all for the men, and us women often do get stuck in the kitchen, or taking care of the kids, while our husbands are embraced and out late learning. so now, i find myself in the almost perfect community of people, except that it's not orthodox, and while all are jews, no two do the same thing. so i find myself in the odox communities whenever i can since i feel a closeness that i don't feel anywhere else.
i totally resent that some posters on this blog feel that if a person isn't completely happy than they should go somewhere else. the beauty of judaism is that we're taught to question--isn't that what we're doing when we learn chumash or talmud? constantly questioning for meaning. so something doesn't make sense, QUESTION it until it does. that's the only way we learn.
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