Hi, I was just your typical 19 year old Seminary girl in South Jersey (if you don't know where I mean, you are probably on the wrong blog). We all have nisoynos, challenges, and experiences, both positive and negative. Here is where I have decided to share some of them.

Location: Lakewood, New Jersey, United States

Saturday, October 27, 2007

Response to an OLD post

Recently, I was shocked to see that people still read stuff I wrote 2 years ago. I received the following the email please

Hi Sem girl. I posted a response to your post on my blog. Please read it. think about it and let me know what you think.

Upon checking her blog I found the following.

Researching tznius on the internet, trying to gain a deeper perspective and understanding, I stumbled across an interesting looking blog-post by "Semgirl". After reading this, and continuing to read on to some other of semgirl's posts, I feel compelled to respond.Firstly, I see that semgirl really tries to be neutral on topics. She states that she went to BY and to Sem and therefore doesn't need to be reminded of tznius in shops etc. I happen to agree that the prices and environment of the "frum stores" in NY is certainly not ideal. Yet, that is what we have!* * * All the criticism in the world won't change the flaws of the frum community. The ONLY way to change the community as a whole- is to look to yourself as to what impression you leave on people, what example you are setting. * * *As to not needing the reminders in the shop- going to BY and Sem is clearly not enough! Look how many untnius girls there are out there! And it is not becuase of having it "rammed down your throat"! It's because girls aren't aware what tnius really is and these Rebbetzins etc are trying. Don't speak ill of them, even if you're sick of it, don't encourage others not to listen.And I would like to tell Semgirl- your post is well written and your topics are relevant. There are many impressionable minds reading it! Try to be positive about the frum world! People don't need any more encouragement to see it's flaws! Anti semitism within and outside the Jewish people is rampant! We must not bury our heads in the sand- we need to see the problems! But in order to solve them- to learn from others' mistakes and behave correctly ourselves! Not to breed hate amongst ourselves. Be positive about the frum world! Offer suggestions as to how we can be better!Semgirl- stop being so negative and critical. It's not productive and you'll be accountable one day, ad meah v'esrim.People read your posts, and people take things to heart.

Here is my response :

What I was trying to say in my post was that tznius comes from the inside out. Preaching over and over again at adolescent girls about the importance of tznius isn't going to change anything. If anything, its only going to make the situation worse. Adolescence isa very contrary and rebelous stage of life. Also we all know proper sleave length, skirt length, etc....we dont need endless and often boring reviews of hilchos tznius. The above are just very superficial attempts at a solution. If a girl (or lady for that matter) feels the need to dress in an attention getting or possibly provocative manner it is obviously indicative of a much deeper problem than a mere lack of knowledge about tznius. A lack of self esteem is the first possibility that comes to mind. Lets examine the most common approach to tznius education. The girls are told that they must be ever so careful in their tznius so as not to give boys and men bad thoughts by the slightest glance at them. This reduces males to the status of dirty minded perverts and females to the status of temptresses and sex objects. It seems to me that a far healthier approach would be to empahsize the holiness and specialness of the Jewish woman. Just as a sefer torah is carefully and reverently covered, so too is the Jewish woman. That to dress in a common and banal manner is simply beneath her dignity. A Jewish woman is neither cheap nor common. I wont even get into the lack of respect with which young women are treated on the shidduch scene. Her only worth is her looks, dress size and her bank account. Therefore, is it any wonder that young women feel the need to look like goyishe fashion models? Thus, I also submit that the attitudes of young bochurim towards girls need to change. They need to realize that young Jewish women are not mere sex objects and work horses. Jewish men need to treat Jewish women with the respect and dignity due a bas melech. I truly feel if these ideas were implemented, the level of tznius in both dress and behavior would drastically improve.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

at least your posting

10/28/2007 2:06 PM  
Blogger jewish philosopher said...

And are men more than sperm banks and ATMs? It really depends who you ask.

Selfish people always treat others as inanimate objects.

10/30/2007 2:53 PM  
Blogger Jewboy said...

Perhaps a tutorial on use of the exclamation point is needed for the writer you quote.

10/30/2007 2:55 PM  
Blogger Lvnsm27 said...

I agree, they should be taught that their body is special and should be protected. - When dressing modestly, their dignity is protected, and people see Them, and not just their body. Plus, being tznius helps let their inner beauty show

11/04/2007 2:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tznius is one of the greatest topics. it provides endless fodder for so many people. me too. lol.
come visit

11/04/2007 9:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tznius is one of the greatest topics. it provides endless fodder for so many people. me too. lol.
come visit

11/04/2007 9:06 PM  
Blogger Scraps said...

1) I agree with you that it need not be endlessly rammed down people's throats; women and girls will choose to dress as they wish, and if they choose to dress less modestly than they should...well, that's their choice. And the schools and seminars and lectures would do well to emphasize the refinement and modesty of the Jewish woman rather than paint us all as temptresses and men as depraved fools.

2) One defense of the endless restating of hilchot tzniut was that you see so many women and girls who dress immodestly despite the many reminders. Well, in my experience, it is partly due to the constant reminders and "ramming down our throats" that causes these very infractions! So many chumras are taught as basic halacha that when girls learn that they were misled, they bounce too far back in the other direction; they assume that all they were taught was hogwash. So I, for one, would argue against the constant reminders for that reason.

11/05/2007 5:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

no need to post this. but please come by and share your wisdom on my new post. thanks

11/07/2007 9:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

New here. Interesting stuff.

I agree with the general idea that rehashing stuff over and over does not work. I disagree that girls are basically taught to dress tznius because of boys and men. Where did you go to school and sem? I went to straight BY schools and everything, and gosh, if a teacher would even mention boys it would be a major No No. All we are told is that we are special and we must dress that way. If anything, my husband is upset that girls are never told of the effect their dressing has on men, cause he says maybe then we'd think twice about how we dress. I am not sure he is right. Either way, in all the schools I know, tznius is taught as a woman's mitzvah for the woman because we are bas melochim. I never had a clue about guys in the whole thing, until I was almost married and figured stuff out on my own.

I agree with some of your complaints SG, but let's not make them sound worse by rehashing the sterotypes that ppl say about BY schools that are not really true.

11/11/2007 6:06 PM  
Blogger Bad4shidduchim(in exile) said...

How about the imp of the perverse? The more you stuff it down my throat, the less inclined I am to listen to you.

If there is so much education and it's still not working - well, my dear, then maybe something is wrong with the system. So stop educating.

11/12/2007 11:53 AM  
Blogger Bad4shidduchim(in exile) said...

PS: where *is* her blog?

11/13/2007 10:55 PM  
Blogger Isaac Wertheimer from Vos Iz Neias said...

Isaac Wertheimer publishes Vos Iz Neias. See The Man Behind VIN

11/21/2007 3:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

don't be a lakewood snob and ignore my plea for help that I ASSuME u read on my blog.

11/26/2007 3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

are you blogging somewhere else?
this blog is dead

12/13/2007 5:48 PM  

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