SEMGIRL

Hi, I was just your typical 19 year old Seminary girl in South Jersey (if you don't know where I mean, you are probably on the wrong blog). We all have nisoynos, challenges, and experiences, both positive and negative. Here is where I have decided to share some of them.

Name:
Location: Lakewood, New Jersey, United States

Thursday, October 06, 2005

Be a Mentor

This article made me take a good hard look at the situation that was so prevalent in my teen years, and even more so now.



Equal time: Giving our daughters a chance

The following is an article By Rabbi Shmuel Gluck. Rabbi Gluck is Director of Areivim, an organization that offers our youth advice and assistance, with a wide array of support systems. This article is syndicated with the express permission of Rabbi Gluck. Teens: Rabbi Gluck welcomes your emails.
In the last few years there has been recognition that more is needed for the non-performing teenagers. This has resulted in an explosion of new Yeshivas, diverse programs, and various organizations. I believe that these efforts are bearing fruit. Teenagers today are being listened to and offered alternatives that only a few years ago were considered unacceptable.
Consider the following: 25 years ago there were about four yeshivas that dealt with the non mainstream Yeshiva bochur. These Yeshivas were still set up with the same framework as that of a typical Yeshiva. The only concession made was in recognizing that their talmidim might not be able to pay attention for long periods of time.
Today, there are dozens of programs for boys. If we consider those Yeshivas in Eretz Yisroel, there must be close to 100 schools or programs designed for the atypical student. I have heard that recently a boys culinary school opened in Eretz Yisroel.
Our mechanchim are not the only ones to recognize the need for alternative schooling. Todays parents have come to accept that some children will not conform to any yeshiva program. Parents today are doing their best to accommodate their children with chavrusos and other innovative ideas based within the home itself.
With all the attention given to teenage boys it becomes somewhat of a wonder that 15 years ago, to my knowledge, there were still no alternative programs for the non typical Bais Yakov student. Today there are still less than 10 alternative programs for girls in existence. If we include the small out of town schools which, although mainstream, are often excellently suited for the non-city type girl, the number increases to a little more than a dozen possible options.
The sad truth is that todays teenage girls have a more difficult time than most boys. They carry guilt, anger, and confusion more intensely than boys do. Boys have fun and forget about it. For girls, it is more often a search for meaning. Each struggle, whether victorious or not, becomes deeply ingrained within their souls.
Girls different motivations are clear to those who work with our teenagers. Teenage girls, particularly those that are searching for answers that they find so elusive, take to poetry, art, and other forms of self-_expression. In speaking to teenage girls I have found their emotional needs and their emotional scars dramatically more severe. Even years later, after they appear happily married with their own families; there remains an internal need to purge themselves from their younger acts. To them no past deed is trivial and every thought is in need of a therapeutic response.
I do not assume that all, or even most, suffering children are inherently always in the right. My intention is to convey to the reader how deeply the teenage girl is trapped in her confusion, unhappiness and with her many internal conflicts.
Girls are confused. It is true that much of their confusion is the result of their wanting to cross boundaries, yet we must still accept the responsibility of providing them with a direction in life. We must also bring to life our views explaining as much to them as we can. If we find ourselves deficient, then we must look to others to fill this void.
After many long talks with parents and their daughters, I believe that I have gained a better understanding into their minds and insecurities and as a result have developed an approach that I would like to share in this article.
Todays generation is way too busy. B■H the average family is significantly larger than it was 20 years go. These larger families naturally result in less time for each child. Many in our community may at times become overly concerned with possessions and our social status. This too distracts us from our most important treasure; our children.
The effect of all this is that many of us find ourselves too distracted, limiting our ability to mechanech our children. We have become numbed by the endless deadlines and numerous responsibilities that confront us daily. We find ourselves constantly reacting to emergencies. We are in a mental coma, and many of us can no longer properly anticipate our children needs until it is too late.
Many have found that we are not asking enough important questions, such as ⌠What is going through my daughters mind lately? Is she happy? Does she have questions or insecurities that I should be paying attention to? Instead, the immense pressures in our lives cause us to let things slide as long as we possibly can.
Unfortunately, allowing things to slide also allows things to build up until they reach epidemic proportions. Tzinius, substance abuse, and chilul Shabbos are a few of them. It is the boys rebellion, though, that most often jars us into action. They rebel in a loud attention grabbing manner. Girls, however, rebel in a way that is more often directed internally and is not felt by others.
A parent cannot ignore the son who has just been arrested. A parent can ignore the daughter who has not been herself for the last few months.
About two years ago Areivim opened a hotline for teenagers. I personally respond to the large majority of calls. I have noticed a dramatic difference between the calls that come from boys than from girls. The boys are in trouble and want to know how to get out of it. Sometimes they are feeling guilty and would like me to somehow remove the guilt. Most calls, in general, are the result of a dramatic incident.
This is clearly in contrast to the calls that I have received from the majority of teenage girls. I would listen to their explanation of why they were upset with a teacher, a parent, a friend, or a roommate. I initially felt that I was wasting my time. It all seemed so trivial. Then I reconsidered. Here were teenage girls calling a total stranger. Why? This call must be important to them. There must be a compelling reason for them to overcome the natural tendency to not share personal feelings with strangers.
These experiences made me rethink my preconceived ideas about our teen age daughters, and therefore my approach to kiruv with our teenage daughters. Maybe girls dont need 100 different schools. Maybe they dont need a school that teaches crafts instead of math two. Maybe todays teenage girls just need someone to talk to, either anonymously or in person. Teenage girls, more than boys, need an e-mail or phone partner. All they need is someone to talk to late at night when they are unsure about tomorrow.
There is no doubt that many of our mentor discussions concern the big issues. I speak to 15 year old girls about not speaking to boys. I help 17 year olds try to put their lives together again. I help 18 year olds decide on the right seminary. 19 year old girls are looking for approval for their prospective choson. In these last few years I find myself also discussing parenting with the same boys and girls who, just a few years before, couldnt understand why their parents should have the right to have any say in their own lives.
Other times though, it is difficult to pinpoint the purpose of our discussions. What is clear is that someone should take the time to listen, show empathy, although not necessarily agreement, and when needed, offer practical and effective suggestions.
Sadly, few people today take the time to listen, advise, and encourage them into real growth. This is unfortunate because teenage girls need much less of our magic than boys do, making their needs something that should be easily available.
Although a real need does exist for alternative schools this is not our most urgent battle front. Instead schools are training their teachers to recognize the first hints of confusion and disenchantment. Almost a year ago an experienced teacher commented to me that, Most teachers dont look to see what is behind our students eyes. Even if we notice the sadness within them we do not know what to do. Today the school has begun to adapt to this challenge.
It might be the time to ask our teachers, particularly those who have recently come back from Eretz Yisroel, to humanize themselves a little more to their students. Structure is essential yet so is the expressing of our human side. Difficult, yet not impossible, this two pronged approach must become the standard of success within our Bais Yakov teachers.
There are already many such committed mechanecheses. Many teachers recognize the individuality of each student and have taken upon themselves one student as a special project. Other teachers feel that they are not able to undertake a student, and search for a former teacher, or an affiliated big sister. Often a mentor with true Torah hashkofo as well one who has an appreciation of the schools philosophy is assigned to this girl.
Equally important is the need to help our teachers learn to articulate the widely accepted and only recently challenged halochos of our Bnos Yisroel. It is ironic that because certain Halachas and minhagim has been so widely accepted within our schools and homes that many of us, even our teachers, have forgotten how to explain its source, its halachic guidelines, its chumros, and more importantly, the beauty of these mitzvos.
I would like to conclude by confirming that: mi kamcho Yisroel. Klal Yisroel continuously adapts to each nisoin presented to us during our long golus. Most recently we have learned to understand our teenage sons and are making headway in that area. Certainly we are just as capable of offering our daughters the same energy and vision to help them through their challenges.


When I was in H.S., you needed to basically fit in. Like, if you weren’t the prototype “good girl”, you were pretty much on your own, socially, emotionally, and most other ways, if you survived in that atmosphere at all. I saw a number of girls lost by the wayside, which is really sad. There obviously, never will be a 100% solution, but in in my humble opinion, an objective counselor , whose sole agenda wasn’t merely to ensure that you fit the mold, would make all the difference in the world. Very often, I so desperately just needed someone to talk to. My mother was occasionally helpful in that regard, whereas my father was always far worse then my teachers in school or the community.

Seminary, was pretty much more of the same. The main difference was that now, I was already an adult with a new found freedom in a strange far off country. The result was that the year in Israel primarily consisted of Tiyulim (trips) , and meeting boys whenever I could, along with lots of indoctrination in the Sem, itself. Once, again there was a tremendous need for in-house counseling, or just someone, “who’s been there”, to hold your hand and show you where to go.

As an aside, it would be nice to have an advisor for those girls, who don’t have the innate ability or simply are not interested in going into Chinuch (teaching). There are other fields to go into, because Hashem, did after all create a myriad of talents and abilities, as well as, a job out there, somewhere to take utilize each and every one of these skills. But that’s a subject for a different blog, IY”H.

Even now, my greatest source of support and Chizzuk, comes from email and cyber friends. Ironically, instead of Lakewood (or other communities of a similar ) “rising to the occasion” , and creating viable alternatives, they are resorting to merely banning the internet. Fortunately, its directed primarily at school-age children, which I tend to agree with. Because, lets face it, the Internet is a very dangerous thing, for children, who lack the judgment that’so crucially needed. On the other hand, there really is very little that you can do about adults, who need to work or go to College, in order to support future husbands in learning, and already have laptops with wireless connections, to use for their education (ie: sending papers and exams to professors)., and other related matters.

In synopsis, I would strongly encourage any women, single or married, reading this, to consider being a big-sister/mentor to a teenaged girl in your neighborhood or community. It could really change her life in ways, that you can’t even begin to imagine.

52 Comments:

Blogger Y.Y. said...

good to be the first post
great article
it can be sumed up in one sentence
if girls would only have the right persons to talk their minds out too things would be much better

10/06/2005 11:54 AM  
Blogger ClooJew said...

You, SG, would make, lulei demistafina, an excellent "big sister." Perhaps you can spearhead a big sister movement in Lakewood.

The reason why the boys have so many more solutions is captured in the article with its description of how boys deal with problems. They are better equipped to bounce back. Men, who study Talmud, learn alot about yeitzer hara and sin and failure and teshuvah, and thus have a different take on those subjects than women, who seem to simply wallow in guilt.

There are many, many men in chinuch today who were less than successful as bachurim. They are often the best rabei'im. Not so with the women. I doubt that many of those "less that 100%" BY girls ever go into chinuch themselves, unlike the men. So on the women's side the BY culture of indoctrination promulgates itself. The "best" students become the new generation of teachers--but they lack the life skills to deal with the problems their students face--because they didn't really face those problems themselves as teens.

The answer, of course, lulei demistafina, is for those "less-than-perfect" BY girls to recognize that they are the perfect people positioned to take on the problems of BY HS girls. They may not be in the mainstream of the school system, but that will probably be a benefit.

You really ought to start something, SG!

10/06/2005 1:15 PM  
Blogger Mata Hari said...

cloo - I disagree with your take on why it's easier for boys to bounce back. I think part of it is that boys are forgiven more easily by society - there's the old boys will be boys mentality....guys can sow their wild oats and then in later years settle down to become model "yunger leit". I was once at a teens at risk weekend, where the presententers themselves said that while boys are accepted back wholeheartedly, girls get stigmatized and have a much harder time in the community once they have a bad reputation.

10/06/2005 5:06 PM  
Blogger Halfnutcase said...

nice post, and i can see and relate to the urgancy of it... but have little to say.

HNC

btw, semgirl, you probably should go in to chinnuch i agree with ClooJew

10/06/2005 6:45 PM  
Blogger Elster said...

I disagree with BOTH Cloo and Mata. You guys are looking at EXTERNAL factors when this is clearly an internal issue. Not to sound repetitive but guys are just hardwired differently than girls. When don't internalize our feelings as much. Therefore, we can simply let things go easier.

While I am male, I do have plently of firsthand knowledge of the female experience. I have a wife and a daughter. Girls simply can't let go of things as easily. Guys yell. scream, make a joke, they let it out. Girls tend to keep it in until te point of explosion.

10/06/2005 8:13 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

The ban is not aimed at schoolchildren, but at adults. Children are the excuse and the means of enforcement, but not the main, and certainly not the only, target.

As for Semgirl being the perfect mechaneches, is this meant as a joke? How can a woman who has not yet come to terms with her own negative and rebellious feelings, and who still acts out in forbidden ways, possibly be a good influence on others?

10/06/2005 10:12 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

At the risk of stating the obvious, YGuy, you do realize that you are on the Internet right now.. Dont get me wrong, I am happy you are participating on my blog.. Just curious how you can find a heter to be on the Internet and they say that I'm "acting out in forbidden ways" .

10/06/2005 11:26 PM  
Blogger brianna said...

Lakewood is screwed up and as always, the girls suffer more than the guys. Rules for girls are just more rigid.

10/07/2005 12:07 AM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

Where did I say that I think the internet is forbidden? I simply pointed out that the purpose of the ban is to keep adults from using it.

By acting out in forbidden ways I am referring to kanoodling with various boys you pick up, which you yourself have described in previous posts. This is forbidden by the Torah; surfing the net is not (so long as one steers clear of pornographic sites).

Finally, my point was not to express disapproval of your actions, but only to note how ridiculous it is to suggest that someone who has not yet come to terms herself with these issues is fit to act as a mentor to others.

10/07/2005 1:04 AM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

Let me re-iterate this to be clear: Using the net is permitted! Y'hear? Permitted!

Don't believe the Lakewood propaganda.

10/07/2005 1:07 AM  
Blogger Halfnutcase said...

Yguy:
why would she be a good person to enter in the field of chinnuch? percisely because she has had these problems. if she has them and is still commited to torah, she will be able to help girls who have questions and nisyonos similar to hers.

sem girl:
it's sad that girls, who need little more than someone to listen are not getting that little bit they need. i would have hoped we would be doing something that's so easy for the bnos yisroel.

just my two cents

10/07/2005 8:23 AM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

YGuy.. There is a world difference between a Mechaneches and a Mentor. If you have a sister or a daughter, I pray that you never have to find out what the diference is.

10/07/2005 9:28 AM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

I ask you: If you had someone doing drugs, who would be a fitting mentor? Someone who had previously done drugs and was now free and clear, or someone who was still doing drugs? I think the answer is obvious.

10/07/2005 10:04 AM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

I am a married, frum woman in Lakewood and I volunteer to be your mentor. You kind of sound like you need one.

10/07/2005 11:13 AM  
Blogger rebtsvi said...

OMG, SG, Lakewood is about to save you!

Good luck.

10/07/2005 12:04 PM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

If you knew me you'd LAUGH that you just called ME "Lakewood".

10/07/2005 12:07 PM  
Blogger ClooJew said...

"I think part of it is that boys are forgiven more easily by society - there's the old boys will be boys mentality...."--Matahari

"Guys are just hardwired differently than girls. We don't internalize our feelings as much. Therefore, we can simply let things go easier."--Elster


While I am usually loathe to agree with those who disagree with me, lulei demistafina, I think you both raise excellent points. I think these are ALL reasons, which taken collectively, make it easier for guys to bounce back.

10/07/2005 12:13 PM  
Blogger ClooJew said...

"How can a woman who has not yet come to terms with her own negative and rebellious feelings, and who still acts out in forbidden ways, possibly be a good influence on others?"--Yeshivaguy

First off, lulei demistafina, that's not an accurate description of SG. You cannot consider her questioning and discussing issues to be "rebellious."

As for sin, are any of us pure? It would be a difficult world to live in if the first requirement for any sort of educational position was being free of any and all sin. We would simply have no teachers.

Besides, there is a difference, as SG points out, between being a "big sister" and teaching at a Bais Yaakov. Do you think that the girl who has no one else to talk to is better off hanging out at the mall and chatting away on the internet than with talking to SG?

I'll take the latter.

10/07/2005 12:20 PM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

I think the best mentor is someone who did the "bad things" and doesn't do it anymore. Otherwise they'll just sit and share gossip about what each one did.

10/07/2005 12:23 PM  
Blogger Elster said...

To be an effective mentor you either had to live through those things yourself or at least have been highly exposed to them. That's the difference between mentor and michanech. The michanech is technically on a different "level" - tells you what is right and wrong. The mentor is more "practical" - more understanding that things arenb't so black and white.

10/07/2005 1:39 PM  
Blogger Mata Hari said...

dear nobody (emily dickinson anyone?)
i highly doubt that the person who volunteers to be a big sister is going to then spend her time corrupting the little sister

actually, the process might do them both good

and often, the ones who have already worked things out for themselves, are settled down and married with their own kids, and don't have time to be big sisters

cloo - it's the sign of a big man to be able to admit someone else is right

10/07/2005 1:58 PM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

I wouldn't want someone who is still as confused as semgirl being a mentor to one of my daughters. (They are little now but I still worry)

What would semgirl say to a 15 year old girl, who says "So, Like, I met this guy, and he is like so ultra hot and we made out - it was like so cool"

I am not judging anyone. I just think she may need a mentor more than she is ready to be a mentor.

10/07/2005 2:03 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Cloo I totally agree with you, but YG is entitled to his opinion, thats the point of a blog..

Nobody: Are you being sarcastic ?

10/07/2005 2:05 PM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

Sem - when I first wrote the post I was being mostly sarcastic. But, I went thru a little bit of what you are doing now (although, I wasn't shidduch dating and other "dating" at the same time - I think you are playing a very dangerous game by doing that) I could probably be a big help to you. But as Mata Hari said - I'm married with kids and a job and don't really have much time. Would you be interested if I was serious?

10/07/2005 2:08 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

"I think the best mentor is someone who did the "bad things" and doesn't do it anymore. Otherwise they'll just sit and share gossip about what each one did."
"I wouldn't want someone who is still as confused as semgirl being a mentor to one of my daughters. (They are little now but I still worry)
What would semgirl say to a 15 year old girl, who says "So, Like, I met this guy, and he is like so ultra hot and we made out - it was like so cool"
I am not judging anyone. I just think she may need a mentor more than she is ready to be a mentor."

What she said.

10/07/2005 5:43 PM  
Blogger eyeopine said...

Various Points
Nobody: my experience is that a mentor needs to be someone the mentee (if thats a word) knows and thinks they can trust usually there is no defining moment where the mentor/mentee relationship starts. it builds and grows overtime.
YG: If a fifeteen your old said to SG she met a gut and made, SG is in the position to say "your desires are natural but maybe this is not a situation you want to be in." The way i understand SG, she knows what that some conduct is inapprpriate but she doesnt always live up to the standard she knows is correct. I admire her ability to address her shortcomings and questions.

10/08/2005 11:45 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Nobody ..if you are serious email me privately.

10/09/2005 1:55 AM  
Blogger Josh said...

The michanech is technically on a different "level" - tells you what is right and wrong. The mentor is more "practical" - more understanding that things arenb't so black and white. - Elster

I have to strongly disagree with the above statement. A mentor and michanech do NOT speak from different worlds, one just being the more "realistic" version of the other's ideals. The strength of a mentor is that s/he reinforces the lessons of the michanech, albeit in an informal way. Where the michanech may be trained in the skills of formal education, the mentor may be an expert on simply relating to others and providing a listening ear. The advice should be the same, but the relationship won't be built around grades and formal relationships. The most successful michanech will be exactly the teacher that recognizes that life is not black and white, and the best mentor will like-wise have the same firmness of what is right and wrong to offer to the mentee.

10/09/2005 4:19 PM  
Blogger Elster said...

Josh:

I never sais they were different WORLDS. I said levels. i happen to agree with you. So there.

As for whether SG is ready to be a big sister. No. But ONE DAY, she WILL be a great one. But that sday has not arrived. proof? She is still on the lookout for one herself.

BUT: one day she will be a great one.

10/09/2005 5:28 PM  
Blogger Josh said...

Elster: I'm with you all the way.

10/09/2005 6:46 PM  
Blogger Halfnutcase said...

a comment i heard once:
i have my halacha rebbi, and my Kvetching rebbi.

10/09/2005 7:54 PM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

Yeshivaguy - you seem very knowledgable about the internet takanos that are being put into place in Lakewood. Tell me - did you even go to any of the speeches given by the roshei yeahiva? Because, I think if you had, you would view things a lot differently.

(YES - everyone, I know, I am on the internet right now. I am trying to cut down, but I have a real yetzer harah for it. I believe I should not really be on here now)

10/10/2005 8:36 AM  
Blogger SS said...

Elster, I do not think that you have to have gone through or been exposed to whatever situations in order to be a mentor. I think that it helps, but is not necessary if the person is being real and is at all empathetic. If a person is speaking and listening with their heart open, s/he will be able to "speak" the language that is necessary to be heard.

10/10/2005 1:58 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

"Tell me - did you even go to any of the speeches given by the roshei yeahiva?"

I got a full report, and I really don't buy any of their nonsense on the subject.

My view is in line with those of "kishke," posting here: http://jschick.blogspot.com/ and here: http://godolhador.blogspot.com/

(In both cases, you have to scroll down for the takanah post; I don't know how to link directly to comments.)

There is an especially interesting letter posted from someone who attended the asifah.

10/10/2005 4:12 PM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

Wow.

That's all I can really say.

And not in a good way.

Conspiracies? Zealouts?

I went to the Asifah for the women, and the feeling that I came away with, was that R' M. Solomon just really wants the best for my children.

10/11/2005 7:59 AM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

NB: My mother went to the lady's asifa too. And thats the impression she said most of the women had. Duh, maybe because to the ladies he came across as a sweet kindly Zayde

Whereas, to the men, I heard it was more like "Vee have vays of dealing vit noncompliance, Yavol, commodant.

10/11/2005 9:40 AM  
Blogger nobody28 said...

SG - I guess he knows his audience. I don't think the guys would have listened to Zayde, as much as they listen to "tough love".

(By the way - I like you "german")

10/11/2005 9:56 AM  
Blogger Halfnutcase said...

on a side note NJG has finaly been kissed

and SG i think nobody is right that the guys would, in general not have listened to anything else. such an attidute about dealing with the boys is common.

and not to be self agrandizing i have a post on about this obsession with over doing torah, if anyone is interested.

10/11/2005 10:39 AM  
Blogger Dr. Dreykup said...

hey sem - im a new blogger and i gotto tell you - youve got an awesome blog and got some great dialogue here! I think that one of the biggest problems frum kids are faced with today is that elementry yeshiva is a glorified baby-sitting service where kids don't get any personal attention and no one to confide in yet their parents who themselves r busy expect the school system to shape their kids lives. This follows in HS and beis medrash & sem - where you have a one size fits all education approach - an education mold that few fit in to and a majority of teachers who can not relate at all to growing up in the 21st century. Teens desperately need a teacher on a personal level - someone to confide in, to talk to, to discuss personal issues with. They need to be injected with the tools to be strong and confident in the jewish way of life and to overcome life's challenges - not just to know which tzadik authored what sefarim in what century etc. and not to just learn how to "shtieg" in gemara and rishonim etc yet not be able to apply it to your own life. Until parents and teachers become aware of our systems terrible shortcomings and flaws a mentor would be the perfect solution to help tie all the loose strings that we learn from school and home and help up apply them to real life and tie a tight knot that we can take with us forever. (i'd love to hear everyones opinion on my post about pre-maritial sex issues and how to bring up frum kids nowadays in century 21 on my blog!) Thanx!

10/11/2005 10:52 AM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

HNC : Thanks for telling me about NJG. It seemed like that blog was completely defunct for a while. I need to check yours out too. Lately, there is so much out there to read and so lil time.

Dr D: Welcome to blogland and see what I wrote by your blog..

10/11/2005 2:59 PM  
Blogger Lost said...

Intresting article and even more intresting reaction to it. Why would one pride themselves as being a good mentor? Only a meglomaniac, I believe. I know a lot about the 'secular' and the 'relegious' world as well, but I would never offer to give advice to a/o about a/t to do with relegiousity. And Be'emet, I would be scared sh**less to have any of you as my role model.. Sorry peeps, I go to Rabbis and Rebbetzins for my spritual needs!!! (SemGirl - Plz dont take my honesty the wrong way, I love your blog and you sound like a great person)

10/11/2005 8:23 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

"as much as they listen to "tough love".

Give me a break. I don't need his love, tough or otherwise.

And this is about frummie control, not love. They dress it up differently for the women, and it's evidently quite effective.

10/12/2005 10:52 AM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

"And Be'emet, I would be scared sh**less to have any of you as my role model.. Sorry peeps, I go to Rabbis and Rebbetzins for my spritual needs!!!"

Do they approve of your language?

10/12/2005 1:29 PM  
Blogger Lvnsm27 said...

I love the mentor idea as a big sister kind of thing. I think that it's good for those who need emotional support and someone to talk to about how they feel. But for questions and answers they should go see a rabbi or rebetzin.

Great article, btw.

10/13/2005 11:22 PM  
Blogger LakewoodSchools said...

In reaction to the recent announcements concerning Internet use, a school alternative is planned in Lakewood now. Please see http://lkwdschools.blogspot.com/

10/14/2005 8:57 AM  
Blogger Lost said...

yeshivaguy - are you my rabbi? and i did say, no one is perfect.

10/15/2005 10:40 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

Not your rabbi, just someone who is struck by the incongruity of someone who uses profanity in the same breath as boasting of his/her consultation with rabbis & rebbetzins.

10/16/2005 1:43 PM  
Blogger Josh said...

Yeshiva Guy - Your theme seems to be "thinking for yourself," no? The problem with this theory is that it presumes that the subject is capable of not only thinking, but of coming to a sound conclusion. We have to balance the Gadlus of the Gedolim with our own seichel. One without the other is like a map without a compass, or a compass without a map.

10/16/2005 9:55 PM  
Blogger Pragmatician said...

It's sad that is has come to this; individuality has become a crime...
thanks for posting this article on your blog.

10/17/2005 8:46 AM  
Blogger Lost said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10/17/2005 4:41 PM  
Blogger Ben Sorer Moreh said...

Semgirl, I believe that you would make a good mentor, as well as mentee. One can argue, lulai demonstermash, that one must have "mastered" an area to be a mentor, but not so. Example: The "12 step" recovery programs are made up of people who are at various stages of struggle against some form of self-destructive behavior. We're all imperfect. I would also think that teen-age girls should have access to female mentors, from a "walk in my shoes" perspective. Finally, and this irked me very much about the article. The trend in greater society is to "mainstream" kids. Kids who are physically and mentally handicapped are being taught alongside the rest of the population. Schools accept kids with a wide variety of interests, abilities and attitudes. Why do people in the frum community feel that anyone who is not "100% mainstream" needs to be in a separate school system?
Boo! Ben.

10/31/2005 7:40 AM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Its just another example of the 'fit the mold' policy prevalent in Yeshivish and Chareidi communities. Cant have very smart children in one class and avg kids in other because what high school wants to take the avg children and get a "Sheim" its for shvacherer ( less that premium) children. And then this will affect Shidduchim.

10/31/2005 9:33 AM  

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