SEMGIRL

Hi, I was just your typical 19 year old Seminary girl in South Jersey (if you don't know where I mean, you are probably on the wrong blog). We all have nisoynos, challenges, and experiences, both positive and negative. Here is where I have decided to share some of them.

Name:
Location: Lakewood, New Jersey, United States

Monday, May 15, 2006

Feelings

I have been going thru many emotions this last week or so. From total denial, to shock and horror, to outrage, to nausea, to fear, to abject despondence and grief . After discussing this with many friends and a professional counselor, and weighing the pros and cons of writing about this, I decided that I need to write something for mental catharsis, and assuage the pain that comes from bottling up all the feelings inside.

If my dear friend, or her family is reading this, know that you are in my prayers, that Hashem should give you the strength to get past this , and go on to have a wonderful life. The entire community feels your pain and wishes you the best. It is my solemn wish that this should be a Kappora before the Ribono Shel Olam , instead of anything worse to your family, community, or Klal Yisroel. I hope this isn’t inappropriate on my part, in any way. I beg you for Mehila if it is.

This
organization is wonderful in such matters and can be very helpful in getting thru the long-term path back to normalcy, health, and well-being.

Although the idea of Shomrim and greater awareness in general is positive, I feel it would be very beneficial, as well as, an unfortunate need for all Bais Yaacov schools to offer courses in basic self-defense. These can incorporated into a health/exercise program that would serve a double purpose of helping the girls trying to maintain a certain weight and get exercise, in addition to learning self-defense techniques that will help us all feel secure.

66 Comments:

Blogger Isaac Kaplan said...

I totally agree. Unfortunately, many schools are in fantasyland when it comes to this kind of stuff. They want to keep kids "sheltered" from such horrible things. Heck, even the Yated barely mentioned it! As the sole source of news for many heimishe families, it's a dereliction of duty on Liphschitz's part. Terrible job there.

Unfortunately, these incidents might be the wake-up call for schools enacted sensible programs such as you have suggested.

5/15/2006 9:38 PM  
Blogger ThinkingJew said...

You can post whatever you want, but be honest with yourself and everyone. You posted this for yourself and no one else. As far as the girl, it would be best if people would shut up and just stop making her the object of everyone's pity, blogs, and yenting.

You may feel all important, but trust me, they are getting all the advice they need about where to go for help, and your ill-placed link, which only adds fuel to all the speculation and fire, is not something for the girl's benifit, but for your selfish one.

I used to like your blog, and I do think you mean well, but you are so misguided and keeping this here, is really not nice for her or her family as nice and feeling as you make yourself sound.

Do the right thing. You have a creative mind. Come up with a good post. Don't profit off someone else's tragedy.

5/16/2006 12:34 AM  
Blogger turquoiseblue said...

SG - I think your post mirrors many others' feelings and thoughts... about this terrible tragedy...including the uncertainty of what's right or wrong to say/write about it...

In fact, I've had a post up about it temporarily - and by mistake it got deleted. I took that as a sign that it was not meant to be...

I really like your proposal - that schools should have some type of self-defense/excercise/health program...

Though of course, we must remember that after all - it is only Hashem's protection that can really give us the ultimate sense of security. I guess that makes prayer the ultimate weapon/self-defense...

5/16/2006 3:30 AM  
Blogger Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...

you are so right
Women must learn to defend themselves
what is the story you are refering to-we in Blogland havent heard it

5/16/2006 9:50 AM  
Blogger Limey2001 said...

The Vaad wont allow it
#1- Chukas Hagoyim
#2- Battered Husbands (although they probably deserve it)
#3- will have to take the place of learning ramban's pirush on chumash which is much more important (spiritual growth)
Thinkingjew- SG did mention that its for herself.......

5/16/2006 10:40 AM  
Blogger Out of towner said...

A self defense course is a great idea and I would advicate one for the boys as well. In addition, particularly for children, classes and even acted out training on what to do when attacked. It's not as if you are going to turn either the girls or boys into black belts, but sometimes even simple things, like run and yell no matter what you are threatened with, can make the difference between safety and tragedy.

5/16/2006 1:24 PM  
Blogger Hoezentragerin said...

As far as the girl, it would be best if people would shut up and just stop making her the object of everyone's pity, blogs, and yenting.

Thinkingjew, I couln't have said it better myself

5/16/2006 2:10 PM  
Blogger Limey2001 said...

Whats wrong with trying to make something good come out of a bad situation, if we cant talk about it we can prevent it! And if we can talk about the incident there will be no impetus to do anything either.
KungFu 101 coming to a Bais Yaakov near you. (taught by??? not a shiksa hopefully)

5/16/2006 2:54 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Hoezentragerin: I love and respect you very much. I think you already know that. But I spoke to many ppl as well as, a highly esteemed professional counselor and therapist, and was strongly encouraged to write this for the benefit of the tzibur as well as my own mental well being, if I dont mention any names.

You are welcome to email me your credentials, or we will have to agree to disagree.

B'ez H, I will answer everyone else later.

5/16/2006 3:32 PM  
Blogger southernyid said...

I was with you until the part about maintaining a certain weight. stress exercise and health and stop making the overweight girls more self-conscience than they already are.

I have been blessed with children of both varieties (fat and skinny) and we are forever encouraging the overweight (one boy, one girl) to eat right and exercise but always because they will be healthier never because they will be thinner.

5/16/2006 4:01 PM  
Blogger Lakewood Venter said...

SG- I will not post my comment here, rather I will email it to you privately. I think you know the jist of what i will say to you, especially after the "kind" words you emailed me after I posted (and subsequently deleted- my post about this most unfortunate event!

5/16/2006 5:03 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Southernyid...you mis-understood what I said. As a someone who isnt exactly a 2 or 4 either, and struggled with my wt my whole life, I merely meant that if a girl already is actively looking to exercise and maintain her wt of her own accord, this would be a good activity for her, in addition to protecting and keeping her safe.

5/16/2006 5:24 PM  
Blogger Hoezentragerin said...

Semgirl, I happen to be a mental health professional myself, but putting yourself into your friends shoes brings more insight than any credentials do.
Sorry for sounding harsh here, but who gives a damn about your feelings?
Since when was this tragedy about you?
Am I just a very uncaring vicious individual if I chose to focus on the victim's emotional health way more than I care about yours?
Think about for a minute semgirl, would you appreciate a bunch of guys gathering together in your "support" and discussing the hows whats whys and wheres regarding your heinous violation?
Will any of these wonderful supportive guys date her now?
Like TJ said, yenting about the tragedy wont help her situation to say the least.
The community wants to promote personal safety issues?
Of course, they should do that.
But not by making this poor victim their poster child.

5/16/2006 8:01 PM  
Blogger Eshet Chayil said...

Sg, I have to ask you something about this. Im going to email you.

5/16/2006 8:02 PM  
Blogger turquoiseblue said...

TJ and Hoizen - you do realize that when such a terrible thing happens it affects more than the person it happened to... For sure, the victim is the one that actually suffered it minute by minute as it was happening, and beyond... but for anyone part of the immediate circle of: family, friends, community, general community - the entire humanity actually... are the secondary victims. In many ways... they too have to cope with the after-effects.

I don't think SG, or anyone, trying to come to grips with their feelings... minimize in any way the actual victims suffering.

If you'd overhear her saying these things in the victim's presence... then you might have had a point.

As it is, I don't think your comments have ANY merit.

5/16/2006 9:00 PM  
Blogger victimsrealfriend said...

Talk about being fickle minded TB! didn't you write about the "uncertainty of what's right and wrong to say/write"? Didn't you say you took your deleted post as a sign?
If you consider yourself a secondary victim because you too are a frum female and live in the US, fine. But don't talk about your pain or support for the victim, talk about support for yourself and talk about disregard for the true victim, her family, and close friends. Talk about your own selfish narcissistic needs.

5/16/2006 9:15 PM  
Blogger turquoiseblue said...

To quote Limey: Semgirl DID preface by saying this was for herself...

5/16/2006 11:26 PM  
Blogger victimsrealfriend said...

Lame response as always, TB. Don't quote Limey, quote yourself...

5/16/2006 11:30 PM  
Blogger ThinkingJew said...

Semgirl, you shocked us. Shame. And after mussaring Lakewood Venter too. I guess it takes courage to admit an error.
TB, I am surprised at your turnabout too. No one is doubting your state Semgirl or TB or anyone else. The entire community was traumatized by this. Still to even compare the feeling this girl went through, and is made to keep going through AS LONG AS OTHERS KEEP VIOLATING HER PRIVACY and yenting about her plight, to your personal pain and the pain of the community, is a bit selfish to say the least.
True, we need to deal with it too, but I doubt violating the victim again is the way. Not the Judaism and mentchlichkeit I was brought up with. Oh no. There are other, smarter, classier ways.

I am deeply saddened and dissapointed. I thought we had a caring, sharing, loving blog community here. I guess this is the real side of people revealed here too.

How sad.

5/17/2006 12:39 AM  
Blogger Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5/17/2006 3:38 AM  
Blogger Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5/17/2006 5:31 AM  
Blogger kollel mama said...

thinkingjew said it best.Everyone calm down.

5/17/2006 5:32 AM  
Blogger Limey2001 said...

Kollel Mama if we calm down and make believe it didn't happen it can Chas veshalom happen again.........to you?

5/17/2006 12:03 PM  
Blogger jewish philosopher said...

This is a very interesting post. I would just like to mention that it generally isn't very easy for a woman to defend herself against a man. Men have on the average much greater upper body strength than women. They have longer arms too. That's why women don't compete against men in sports.

The only type of self defence that really makes sense for a woman is a handgun. Alternatively, a large dog may be effective. Fist fighting will very likely make the attacker only more angry. I wouldn't really advise it.

5/17/2006 1:06 PM  
Blogger Limey2001 said...

JP- you'd be surprised at what a well placed elbow or knee can do in close quarters, and give the victim enough time, those precious seconds to scream or get to safety

5/17/2006 2:34 PM  
Blogger victimsrealfriend said...

Limey-guess what? Even if we blog about this 24/7 it still will happen again. It happened to a kid in Monsey last year too and it happens to women all the time. In fact, if my friend wouldn't be missing for 8 hours, you wouldnt know about it either.
This is the world and sois life.

5/17/2006 3:29 PM  
Blogger Limey2001 said...

Why don't they pour their misplaced wrath on you calling yourself "victimsrealfriend" (the thinkingjews and hosentragerins of the world)
talk about trying to get sympathy selfish etc. etc.

5/17/2006 5:06 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

"These can incorporated into a health/exercise program that would serve a double purpose of helping the girls trying to maintain a certain weight and get exercise, in addition to learning self-defense techniques that will help us all feel secure."

What a brilliant response to this tragedy: a weight-loss program! That earns you a ten for creativity, but a zero for relevance. Ridiculous.

Those who would like some facts about whether it's a good idea for women to learn to fight off an attacker can click on this link:

http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/ninetips.asp

5/17/2006 7:12 PM  
Blogger BARBARIANFROMCALIFORNIA said...

semgirl didnt write this the vocabulary is too advanced for her intelect. read her other posts

5/17/2006 7:23 PM  
Blogger bec said...

i strongly agree with semgirl's response. educating young women both intellectually on how to deal with this type of situation as well as giving them the physical education they need that will, at the very least, help them to have more self-confidence, if not actually prevent an attack from occuring, is an excellent idea. as a bt, i've met a few women who've managed to stave off attackers (not in the frum world)based on the use of both physical means as well as intellectual reasoning. while this unfortunately cannot work out positively in every situation, it is important for young women to at least feel that they are in control. only education and discussion of the situation can give them that feeling of control. if this is ignored by the community and not addressed, you bet it will happen again.
semgirl's post is not exploiting nor exacerbating the situation. she is holding a discussion that needs to be held, not silenced.
silence can be deadly.
semgirl, i applaud you for putting this up.

5/17/2006 10:00 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

"that will, at the very least, help them to have more self-confidence, if not actually prevent an attack from occuring"

Maybe what's needed is less self-confidence rather than more, so that a girl will be more careful and thus less likely to enter a potentially dangerous situation.

5/18/2006 12:28 AM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

TB and Limey:

I could not agree with you more.

Hoezen:

You are right about not using her as the poster-girl. However, unfortunately, often it is just such a tragedy that creates a cause-celebre and launches a revolution.

Witness the creation of Mothers against Drunk Drivers, and tougher DWI laws in the fifty states.
Or the disappearance and brutally, savage murder of Adam Walsh, that was the catalyst for John Walsh to start an entire movement and the Code Adam system.

As well as many other movements that were brought about by major catastrophes. Hoezen, and others, wake up and smell the coffee, you are not living in some Eastern European Shtetl anymore. The bury your head and ignore it, and it will go away approach does far more harm than good.

EC…I still havent received your email, I will answer anything you want, when I do.

TJ…very very small minded. I was strongly encouraged to write this, WITHOUT mentioning any names or details, by some very educated, experienced professionals. It is unfortunate but your attitude, can put other innocent girls in jeopardy. If I can prevent this from happening again to just one girl, it is definitely worth it. My heart goes out to the girl and her family, but respectfully, I have to stand by the advice given me by the highly recognized professionals I consulted with.

JP..You are absolutely right, that is precisely, what martial arts are designed for. Or even something as simple as kicking an assailant in a very vulnerable spot.

Victimsrealfriend (with friends like you, who needs enemies) with such a defeatist attitude why bother getting out of bed in the morning.


YG…I was trying to be a lil flippant..it’s a laugh or cry situation..sorry you didn’t get the sarcasm.. But thank you very much for that excellent link..

Barb..I acknowledged that I had considerable help with this post.

Bec…Thank you…at least someone with a brain out there..You obviously didn’t go to some Bais Yacov academy for the creation of pathetic cows..

5/18/2006 12:32 AM  
Blogger Flatbushyid said...

Semgirl

Were exactly did you acknowledge you had help with this post?

5/18/2006 2:12 AM  
Blogger lola said...

Bais Yacov academy for the creation of pathetic cows

WOAH.

You really seem to resent almost EVERYTHING about the frum community. I think you should go try to live in some out of town place that has NO frum community. Maybe you'll be a happier less bitter person.

Sincerely,

One of the "pathetic cows"

5/18/2006 7:35 AM  
Blogger Hoezentragerin said...

Semgirl, hope you didn't take my comment as a personal attack, because it is not. I guess we just see the issue from different perspectives.

5/18/2006 9:41 AM  
Blogger jewish philosopher said...

Every situation is different of course, however I would be hesistant to advise a women to resist an attacker unless she can use overwhelming force - two 9 mm rounds would be good. Anything less than that could enrage the attacker.

As far as exercise, aerobics and especially running could be very useful.

5/18/2006 12:54 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

"YG…I was trying to be a lil flippant..it’s a laugh or cry situation..sorry you didn’t get the sarcasm."

The sarcasm was all on my end. You were being earnest.

5/18/2006 1:08 PM  
Blogger ThinkingJew said...

Semgirl. Your heart goes out to nobody but your post and yourself. All this professing of caring means nothing. Actions speak louder than words.

Your one comeback to me and hoezen as well as the others who disagree show how you are just repeating a catch-phrase with so little understanding. You keep saying we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand and denying won't help, the shtetl, all those worn, and borrowed phrases.

Nobody is talking about burying our heads in the sand, silencing discussions about self defense or anything. All that could be done just as well, with no mention of the girl. The awareness is there, people will be receptive. Pushing this girl in the front IS USING HERE, like it or not.

As far as MADD and the rest. These mothers went out themselves and CHOSE this way. If this girl would CHOOSE to go on blogs and use this means of therapy, all the power to her. YOU have no right to PUSH HER to the front. Your comparison does not reflect well for a girl who has her own brain and is not a "pathetic cow". So far we have a wrong comparison and worn, used "shtetl" phrases. Nothing new.

As far as listening to professionals, as long as you give no names, which I understand you maybe can't do, still if you cannot, then it is meaningless. Anyone can say they asked professionals or rabbonim anything they want. No name, means nobody knows you didn't make it up, or how good they really are.

I will say that I used to like your blog and respect you. Maybe Barb is right and something happened to change you, but this is not the you we knew. Tackling tough issues does not have to mean sacrificing innocent people on the way.

5/18/2006 6:41 PM  
Blogger socialworker/frustrated mom said...

I have no worthwhile comments after reading everyone elses comments but I did read the post.

5/18/2006 10:06 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

TJ and others...

All I can say is I received this email today from someone I love, adore and respect very much ... If she gives permission I will post her name or blog..

Dear SG

I did read your post, and I have to say, that I didn't find anything offensive in it. I think you were very honest about what you were feeling and why you were writing the post. I still am not sure why so many people think that these events should not be discussed. I think it's extremely important to raise people's awareness (not to scare everyone out of their minds, but to make sure people know that they need to be cautious and that these things do happen). If anything I would think that the family of the girl would want something good to come of such a horrible act, and if that means that many women are now going to be trained in self-defense and know how to take care of themselves, then I can't imagine that it would bother them to know that is the effect of such a horrible thing happening.

Your friend

xxxx

5/19/2006 12:44 AM  
Blogger jemima3 said...

Thinking jew and hoezentragerin have expressed their views so eloquently - there's nothing else left to say except please remove this post.

5/19/2006 9:08 AM  
Blogger BARBARIANFROMCALIFORNIA said...

boy i miss the old days when blogs had ummmffffff!!!!!

5/19/2006 9:50 AM  
Blogger overindulgent self-importance said...

Ooo ooo, look at me... Elisheva gives me permission to be selfish and to cloak it in indignation. Aren't I important that I am involved? Aren't I

5/19/2006 11:05 AM  
Blogger smb said...

hey everyone, she just wants to help people be aware and cautious so they can protect themself if they need to.

5/19/2006 12:42 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

There's an ad in Masa U'Matan this week for women's safety classes to be held in the lakewood H.S. It looks like these are classes offered by the HS for the general public. There will be women instructors. They are charging very little money; I'd guess it's being subsidized.

5/19/2006 12:47 PM  
Blogger Joey said...

SemGirl seems like you were very fast to point out, that “Mr. Lakevent” did something wrong with his post about the abduction, but when it comes to admitting your post is wrong you use any excuse in the book even some anonymous emailer.
Come on, face the fact that it was wrong to post about this issue, and remove the post like a big girl. Admitting doing something wrong shows strong character, not the contrary.

5/19/2006 3:10 PM  
Blogger BARBARIANFROMCALIFORNIA said...

hey semin girl why do you need to blog you just got married is it so boring already? why dont you put your energy into supporting your husband

5/19/2006 4:35 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

Will you guys take a chill? The story is not exactly a secret. All she did was post her feelings regarding it. What's so terrible about that?

One could argue that each time one of you detractors comments about how terribile it is talk about it, you too are using the incident for your own purposes - namely, to demonstrate your righteousness in not speaking of it.

5/19/2006 5:10 PM  
Blogger ms. shtark said...

woa.

5/19/2006 6:49 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

Barbarian....do I detect sourgrapes

YG...thank you I couldnt of said it better.

Joey, Overind-whatever, and Jemima...

In other words, we dont agree with you, dont say it.

Nothing like respectful exchange of opinions and mature open dialogue. And here I thought thats what blogging was all about. How naive of me.

5/21/2006 12:17 AM  
Blogger Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...

semgirL -SOMETIMES YOU ARE VERY FRIENDLY TO ME AND SOMETIMES VERY AGGRESSIVE
YOU REMIND ME OF MY WIFE

5/21/2006 4:03 AM  
Blogger Datingmaster, Jerusalem said...

aLL WOMEN REGARDLESS OF AGE SHOULD BE GOING TO SELF -DEFENCE CLASSES
SPEAK TO YOUR RABBIS AND ORGANIZE IT IMMEDIATELY
aMERICA IS FULL OF VIOLENT CRAZIES-IT IS AMITSVA TO PROTECT YOURSELVES

5/21/2006 4:05 AM  
Blogger FrumGirl said...

It's a terrible tragedy. I hope you are there for your friend *in the way she needs you to be* during this difficult time.

5/21/2006 2:27 PM  
Blogger Cellar Door said...

All women should learn ju jit su. So how do I get into your bloglines? I guess by writing somethinbg good. darn.

5/21/2006 9:55 PM  
Blogger Joey said...

The real semgirl has been revealed in this post. Forget the topic, but look at her interaction with the users and no admittance of fault.

5/22/2006 11:15 AM  
Blogger Reasonably Nuts Frummy said...

Hey sem girl,
You can't sell your brains to someone just because their 'professional'. That doesn't give you the right to do something your not sure is right as you stated yourself.

5/22/2006 1:49 PM  
Blogger yeshivaguy said...

Oh please. Just give it a rest, you impossible nudniks. You just can't take no for an answer.

5/22/2006 3:23 PM  
Blogger Semgirl said...

B'ezras H I will have a new post in a few days. This is one of those "you can't please everyone" situations. Because, for all the commenters that are stridantly against this post, I keep receiving emails and IM from long-time friends and readers since the beginning of this blog, encouraging me and saying how important it was to write this post.

5/22/2006 6:19 PM  
Blogger Elisheva said...

For the record, that anonymous e-mail was not me. I actually like disagreed with SG, that's why I didn't comment. I e-mailed her and we I guess like agreed to disagree.

Looking forward to the next (and nicer) post!

Shalom

5/22/2006 7:24 PM  
Blogger jUST wANNA Be Me said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5/23/2006 12:49 AM  
Blogger jUST wANNA Be Me said...

Okay, this is my third time trying to post a comment. My last one got deleted, and the first one never posted. Can you tell I'm new to the blogging scene? I agree that we need to be more careful in the Jewish world, but there is a certain importance in keeping frum children as sheltered as possible from the pritzus of the outside world. It is tres important to find a balance.. (by the way, I love your blog, and I started my blog after seeing yours)

5/23/2006 1:01 AM  
Blogger Limey2001 said...

Is it just me or was that ad in the Lakewood Shopper this week from Trim Gym rather taseless????
(Two smiling s saying "have you heard the news")
I understand it was running before the incident but it should have been pulled

5/23/2006 11:24 AM  
Blogger annonymously beautiful said...

Semmy,
I for one know that us jews are rachmonim, bayshonim, and gomlei chasudim. You have shown your empathy towards others in the past, and I dont feel like you are being selfish to post something that you feel on YOUR blog. Those who are so vehemently opposed, I guess I can agree to disagree with you. As to the fact that it is human nature to want to yent, I believe Hashem created us this way,, but like everything else, this too shall pass and the victim will emerge stronger than ever, and move on with her life. As to us human beings yenting about this story, yesterday's news is todays old hat, and even if it takes a few more days, we all have to process what happened as well.

5/23/2006 7:00 PM  
Blogger Tipesh said...

Self-defense against goyim does not work. The Chafetz Chaim (the one who advised people to learn his Sefer as a Segula to find a Shidduch) said; If you want to fight a fight with someone, make sure you are stronger than him and he is Frummer than you. We must make sure to teach our children and ourselves that when a Goy picks a fight with us we must run away (let him take the bicycle). The Goyishe culture says that a coward is a bad thing. We do not think that way and a coward is not necessarily bad. If we stop dealing with Goyim as our equals maybe that will be a Zechus tha tsuch things will stop happening.

5/26/2006 11:34 AM  
Blogger cubanitanyc said...

you are an idiot ^

this has nothing to do with goyim

i know jewish men who have ASSAULTED women

so fuck you, the problem is, jewish people never talk,

and for every jew who stood up for a rapist, molestor, i hope your family is cursed in the worst way possible.

5/28/2006 4:09 AM  
Blogger HilaHoney said...

i agree with cubanita...as a survivor of something like this, how would you feel? hoizen said you should try to put yourself in the girl's shoes. instead of focusing on what she did/didn't do, why don't we focus on what the other person did? this girl didn't choose what the other person did!!!! no one can "make" someone else do something, they act of their own FREE WILL!!!! and while i agree that self-defense is certainly useful, why don't we teach our boys about how to be respectful to others? teach them that women are not their possessions, that they do not have the right to use power and control over someone in any way, shape, or form. maybe then we will not have a need to be having these discussions...

10/06/2006 12:59 AM  

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